‘I absolutely believe I’ll see my son in the afterlife’: A very candid Mary Berry reveals a few secrets… and the comfort she takes believing she’ll be reunited with the child she lost

• Mary, 88, has a new book and TV series, both called Mary Makes It Easy
• READ MORE: Mary Berry is all smiles at Hampton Court Palace Garden Festival

‘Have a piece of cake,’ says Mary Berry, and who could resist? The square of lemon drizzle is as perfect as you would expect from the Queen of Cakes, who’s been teaching us how to make such delights on screen and in books for more than half a century now.

Never mind all this nonsense about avoiding the stuff, like the Chair of the Food Standards Agency, who recently said workers should avoid bringing cakes to work so as not to tempt colleagues who are trying to stay off them. 

‘People say to me, “Oh, I wouldn’t eat cake.” But there’s nothing wrong with cake. It’s about having a small slice and not going back for a second one,’ says Mary, which is a shame because there is another piece on the plate, sitting there all light and fluffy…

She catches me eyeing it up and kindly says I can help myself, but that would feel naughty after what she just said. 

Like many viewers I’ve often wondered how she copes with all the cake in her life but the secret seems to be to have a little of what you fancy and save the rest.

Mary, 88, and one of her beloved cocker spaniels, Freddie. Mary has a new book and TV series, both called Mary Makes It Easy, coming up

Mary’s son William, right, died in a car crash  when he was 19. Her daughter Annabel is pictured left

‘I’m 88 years old now and my husband Paul is 91, so we eat less than we did but we do enjoy food. I cook what we like and we eat a little then wrap the rest up in slices and put it in the freezer for another time.’

She is astonishingly energetic for her age, though. As we chat, Freddie the cocker spaniel is on her lap, while his mum Darcey (named after the ballerina and ex-Strictly judge Darcey Bussell) is with Paul having breakfast in another room, looking out over the garden here in Henley-on-Thames.

She is definitely resistant to those who would seek to ban treats. 

‘There’s nothing wrong with a small piece of cake in a child’s lunch box. A little slice doesn’t do any harm. In fact, it does you good.’

A lot has changed since this graduate of Paris’s Le Cordon Bleu cookery school became food editor of Ideal Home magazine in 1970. 

She’s written more than 80 books and become a household name on TV, and in that time portion sizes enjoyed by Britons have grown and grown. 

‘Have you seen what you get in cafes and at railway stations these days? Mega-biscuits, the size of poppadoms. Slices of cake that are huge. They’re too big. If I was with my husband, we’d have half each.’ 

Mary married Paul, an antiquarian bookseller she met through her brother, in 1966. How have they stayed together so long? 

‘We never have arguments. If Paul upsets me, I just go out to the greenhouse or go into the garden. My father’s advice to Paul was never go to sleep on an argument, make friends before you do. And apologise. Even if you think you’re not sorry but you had better do it,’ she says and chuckles.

‘We have more time together now. It’s lovely. At this age many of my girlfriends haven’t got their husbands and I’ve still got mine. In his dotage he’s more relaxed. And he’s terribly grateful to be near the children and grandchildren, who pop in.’

Mary and Paul have two children, Thomas and Annabel, and five grandchildren. Granddaughter Abby is at Le Cordon Bleu Paris herself now. 

‘She’s doing a plant-based food course. She sends me pictures of things she’s made, saying, “Granny, do you think this is good?”’

Abby’s sister Grace is staying with them while she saves to go travelling. 

Mary is astonishingly energetic for her age, with Freddie the cocker spaniel  on her lap throughout the interview 

‘My children say to their children, “Spend time with Grandpa, he won’t be here forever, see what he’s got to tell you.” Gracie will chat with Grandpa. It’s good to not always be in a rush, to spend time together.’

This prompts a shift in mood, as Mary feels the absence of her third child, William, who died in a car crash in 1989 aged just 19. 

‘I remember when we told Thomas that William had died. He said, “But Mum, we had so much to do.” That’s his sadness. It stays with you.’

William was home from university in Bristol for the weekend when he borrowed Paul’s car, went too fast around a corner and was killed. His sister Annabel escaped unhurt. Her lost son remains a presence in family life. 

‘Every occasion we can we drink to Will. And you wonder what would have been. I still think of him as 19. He would be 53 now. Who would he be? 

‘Still, after all these years, his Bristol friends put flowers and notes at Penn church [the family lived in Penn, Buckinghamshire for over 40 years]. It’s lovely. I think he had an effect on his friends. I hope it made them drive more carefully.’

Mary goes to church regularly. Is her faith a comfort? ‘Yes, definitely. It’s important to me.’ 

Is she one of the many people who believe they’ll be reunited with loved ones in an afterlife, including her son? ‘Oh, yes! I think so. Absolutely. I hope so. There is a comfort in that.’

She misses other loved ones too. ‘There’s a huge sadness when something happens like being made a Dame and you can’t ring your mum and say, “Guess what?” 

‘The first thing I’d do would be to pick up the phone to her or to my brothers, but they’re not there. You miss them. But you must move on, we’ve got to think of the future.’

The present is very busy for Mary, who has a new book and TV series, both called Mary Makes It Easy, coming up. The book features 120 simple recipes, from one-pot dinners to fuss-free desserts. 

The series sees her in unexpected situations, including playing darts with Radio 1’s Jordan North and camping with former Bake Off colleague Mel Giedroyc. 

THAT’S ME – ON A JOHN LEWIS GREETINGS CARD! 

‘There’s a lovely story about this,’ says Mary Berry as she brings out a greetings card with a photo of a mother smiling while her two children play on her back. 

‘I was in John Lewis looking at cards and I thought, “That’s me!”’

Mary thinks this photograph was taken in Pembrokeshire, where they used to go on holiday

She hands me a framed photo that is the same image, but reversed. 

It’s from 1938 and on the back there’s a letter to her father, congratulating him on winning £100 in a Daily Mirror photography contest.

‘That’s my mother Margery. That’s me. That’s my brother Roger. I can remember when it was taken. Daddy would say, “Smile!”’ She imitates him barking the order. 

Mary thinks it was taken in Pembrokeshire, where they used to go on holiday. 

‘I was two years old, maybe three. I bought one of the cards, then wrote to John Lewis and told them about it and they sent me some. 

‘The Daily Mirror had the copyright because they paid handsomely for it in 1938. That money changed my father’s life, it was the equivalent of several thousand pounds. Money was short then.’

Her father was an auctioneer and an alderman of Bath council, and helped set up the city’s university. 

‘He was a very brilliant man who got things done. My mother was always with him, behind him. Until my mother came to see me when I had my first child, they never had a night apart.’

‘We genuinely are good friends,’ Mary says. ‘We did seven years of Bake Off and Mel and Sue [Perkins] and Paul [Hollywood] and I spent so much time together. I have very much kept up my friendship with Mel and Sue,’ she says. 

Mary, Mel and Sue stayed with the BBC when Bake Off moved to Channel 4 in 2017, while Paul went with the show and is still there, alongside Prue Leith. ‘Prue slipped into it beautifully,’ says Mary.

The chemistry is still there in the new show, with Mel calling Mary Bezza or Bez. 

‘My husband always says it’s more fun with someone by my side on TV and he’s right. I was so relaxed with Mel.’ 

Did they actually camp? ‘We had a tent and we put it up. Well, Mel did. I could no more put up a tent than fly. We were cooking together and it was such fun. She was dying to learn and we laughed a lot.’

Mary also makes Crispy Squid and Lemon And Salmon Linguine with Anton Du Beke, Gazpacho and Key Lime Pie with Michael Ball and Prawn Courgetti with AJ Odudu. And Jordan North brought out her cheeky side. 

‘We made a red velvet cake. I put white chocolate balls on top. Lindt ones. Sometimes you’ve got to cheat.’ 

Sorry? I’m shocked to hear this from the woman who was once so fierce with Bake Off bakers, but Mary says people should feel OK about using shop-bought products like lemon curd. ‘Buy the best you can afford, it makes all the difference.’

Mary was well aware the book was coming out during a cost-of-living crisis. ‘These are simple recipes with not too many ingredients. As a family we have at least two vegetable evenings a week. More and more people are growing their own.’

She’s used to people stopping her to tell her they’ve made her recipes. 

‘They’ll say, “I made your lemon drizzle cake and it was so good.” The only nasty one was a letter that said, “With all your money, you should do something about your teeth.” I looked at my teeth, thinking, “They’re not too bad, are they?” I thought, “Why would you do that?”’ she laughs.

Her most famous fan must be the Princess of Wales, who has said that one of the first words Prince Louis spoke was Mary’s name because her cookbooks were just at his height in their kitchen. 

‘She is as bright as a button. And don’t you be fooled, she’s very competitive. She’s brilliant. A wonderful ambassador for Britain.’

The same could be said of Mary. But she’s gone off to have her photograph taken now, so maybe it’s time to risk that other slice of cake…

• Mary Makes It Easy is coming to BBC2 later this year.

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